Jesus camp is as evil as al-Qadia

[Replies: 10]
Last Post Mar 9, 2008 6:12 PM by: buttercups
buttercups
buttercups
Posts: 9,639
Registered: 4/5/05
(11 of 11)

Re: Jesus camp is as evil as al-Qadia

Mar 9, 2008 6:12 PM
"I debated on whether or not to even write that because people like her take any sort of public criticism and wear it like a badge of honor as proof that they are being persecuted for their beliefs."

Some people ARE like this and I do think it's one of the worst things for a government to have going. Don't governments consider people like these dangerous?
L. Walker
L. Walker
Posts: 9
From: VA
Registered: 2/16/08
(10 of 11)

Re: Jesus camp is as evil as al-Qadia

Mar 9, 2008 2:58 PM
This documentary scared the hell out of me. I grew up hearing on a weekly basis how the Second Coming and the Rapture were just around the corner, and while the church I attended with my parents was nowhere near as extreme as the camp in this movie, I know what kind of detrimental psychological impact all the doomsday talk had on me at a young and impressionable age. Stephen King? Who needed him? I had the Book of Revelations. To quote Sarah Vowell (roughly): " I could have done with a few less Seven Seals and a few more Seven Dwarves."

I also found it interesting (albeit in a very alarming way) how the kids were still under a tremendous amount of peer pressure to fit in with the group, but instead of it being about wearing the right clothes or shoes, they were being peer pressured to be filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues.

As far as Becky Fischer goes, I think that she is a very angry and disturbed individual. I don't even think that Jesus even matters as much to her as having something to be fanatical about. People like her just need something to be obsessive about and they need a captive audience to fuel their delusions of grandeur. If she lived in the Middle East she'd be training young people on how to walk into a crowded area with a bomb strapped to their torso. I debated on whether or not to even write that because people like her take any sort of public criticism and wear it like a badge of honor as proof that they are being persecuted for their beliefs. But really, she needs to find a good therapist and maybe channel some of that alleged love and passion for the Lord (and apparently mallomars, too) in a more positive direction. Feeding the homeless instead of brainwashing kids with scare tactics, perhaps.

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Edited by L. Walker at 03/09/2008 1:54 PM

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Edited by L. Walker at 03/09/2008 2:05 PM
Discover-E
Discover-E
Posts: 10
Registered: 12/31/07
(9 of 11)

Re: Jesus camp is as evil as al-Qadia

Dec 31, 2007 7:22 PM
> These people should be taken up on child abuse
> charges. Its sad that in the U.S. we allow this kind
> of brainwashing to take place. Watching this show
> its easy to see why so many of Jim Jones people were
> led to commit suicide. Who ever this woman running
> the camp is should be subject to some heavy
> phsyciatric help immediatley.
>
> The euphoria she creates in these camps is nothing
> short of using drugs to creat the endorphins that
> give rise to the feelings these kids are having.
> America is not now or has it ever been a "christian"
> " nation these people are trying to rewrite our
> history to fit their agenda.

How can you say that "America is not now or has it ever been a "christian" nation..." ? Pull some money out of your pocket and read it. IN GOD WE TRUST

The early settlers came to America to have religious freedom. Over 90% were Christians.

The families in this documentary have the constitutional right to raise their children as they wish. Just because these people don't live like you doesn't make them wrong. You are demonstrating religious prejudice and discrimination. The final step would be to send them to concentration camps.
googlemeplz
googlemeplz
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Registered: 12/31/07
(8 of 11)

Re: Jesus camp is as evil as al-Qadia

Dec 31, 2007 2:28 AM
i have watched just a few minutes of the show and I am APPAWLED![sp] This *camp* is just as bad as Al-quiada. Come one! I saw a priest say that at least that were *teaching the truth* this show just shows how radical the christian faith is, along with all other faiths. I can no longer watch the program without being appawled at the way ALL religions are starting to compete for space and causing utter harm with their views and approachment methods on young people!!!
SEADOG7624
SEADOG7624
Posts: 1
From: REDONDO BEACH, CA
Registered: 12/30/07
(7 of 11)

Re: Jesus camp is as evil as al-Qadia

Dec 31, 2007 1:23 AM
A&E is to be given plaudits for airing the "JESUS CAMP!"

Simply put, I am horrified at the madrassa style techniques used to shape childrens' young and impressionable minds into the acceptance of what can only be described as Pope Leo x said, "This myth of Christ has served us well."

Religion, or the choice not to be aligned with any revelatory religion should be made by the individual during the process of maturation.

We obviously make the mistake, as do all "organized" religions, to enforce a particular religion on our children, just as we force them to accept a first name that might in later years become a burden.

Organized religions all across the planet breed separatism and elitism, sometimes resulting in extreme violence, as history well demonstrates. Today,we preach tolerance, but in fact, though the words go unspoken, the victims of the type of brainwashing shown in the Jesus Camp, and the victims of Islamic madrassa training in fact create an unspoken intolerance, resulting in extreme violence against professors of a different faith.

Thomas Jefferson had his own version of the Christian bible form which he had excorcised all miracles, all "supernatural" allegations and events, and boiled it down to those tales and statements of positive human value. In truth, in the writings of any prophetically revealed religion there are some great moral truths............most of which couldhave been arrived at without the benefit of revelation from some false prophet.

Thomas Paine, one of the founders of this great Nation said, "All that man needs to know about god can be observed in nature." He was a deist of sorts, as were many of his co-authors of our Constitution, and hence the emphasis on the Jeffersonion wall of Separation of Church and State.

The great tragedy in the Jesus Camp approach is that the highly malleable minds of our young are being shut down and denied the right of free inquiry and free choice with respect to the moral and philosophical principles that will guide their future lives.

As we move from childhood to adulthood we lose our belief in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, and other mythical belief systems, only then to have another myth burned into our brains via this type of religious brainwashing.

In search of the historical Jesus finds no evidence of his existence. Only the bible is used to substantiate the myth, and we know well that Nicean Council in the mid 300's under the direction of Constantine was constructed as a political tool, embodying the many myths of the many belief systems of Rome at the time to bring the citicens of Rome under control. Christianity was used even up to this modern day as a mechanism of political and mind control.

Islam, founded by another so-called prophet has been used for centuries to control the minds of a billion people who live in abject poverty, ignorance, and violence which now, again, threatens those who believe in the other false prophet called Jesus whose reality cannot be substantiated in true historicity. Mohammed was a thief, a liar, a murderer, a raper of women, and yet his "so called" revalations are believed.

Joseph Smith, the so-called prophet of the Mormon faith was another low-life, scam and con artist peddling a line of faith that would label most of his followers as complete lunatics. He became such a threat in Illinois that sixteen people from the surrounding area, and perhaps some of his own, descended on him and shot him to death!!!!

The christian bible and the koran belong on the fiction shelf in your local library, along with Mary Poppins, Grimm's Fairy tales, etcl.

Hindus, Taoists, Confucionists, Shintoists, and other believers all over the planet have belief systems,as do christians, jews, islamics, and any number of other believers. Why is this??????? The answer is quite simple. At some point in every human being's life we cross through a portal, open a door, have a vision, seek and answer to the unanswered questions about where did this marvelous creation come from and why are we here. These questions, unanswered, make us immediately vulnerable to the first prophet, preacher, church, that comes along, and we are then sucked in by promises of heaven in the hereafter if we accept the premises put forward, and further motivated by the promise of a "hell" from which nobody has returned. In exchange, all we have to do is surrender our minds, our pocketbooks, our bodies for sacrifice in terrorist suicides! Does this make any kind of rational sense to anybody?????

This planet is populated by people who have more in common than differences, if we would stop and think with rational minds not influenced by divisive, hatred, influences.

It is worthy of note that our species is, with reference to the age of our planet and the universe, in a position of being "early on" on the path of evolution. We have much to learn, many unanwswered questions, and we are impatient so we fall prey to the purveyors of false knowledge from false prophets.

A Unitarian minister, whose name I cannot recall at the moment said, "God is the stuff of creation, perhaps better to be defined by that which is yet to be created, and by the answers to questions we do not yet know how to ask." I find this to be an acceptable answer to our basic human questions.

As centuries pass our communal circle of knowledge will increase. Mayhaps "God" is just another way of saying, "We just don't now yet, but we are working on getting closer to the ultimate truths." This is the way it should be, and we must learn to be patient, and to use the Creator's gift of our own human minds to each and every day move us closer to the understanding of the basic questions..............it will not come in this generation, or the next, but each day, each month, each year will bring us closer, but only if we can unshackle our minds from those archaic religions and belief systems that tie us to the past.

We don't, by definition know what god is, where this creation came from, and why we are here..........or do we? People like Ayn Rand defined a morality that makes some kind of sense. The Golden Rule comes naturallly to our minds.........Thou Shalt not steal, lie, murder, covet thy neighbor's possessions, his wife, his goats, his sheep,and so forth..............this is pretty common sense stuff that any communal society under any kind of leader/ruler could have encoded into law, and was not, therefore, a divine revelation.

Things "supernatural" do not happen by the hand of some mysterious god figure. God does not come down to earth and speak to man and man does not speak to god. Virgin births do not happen! Turning water into wine does not happen.

The bottom line here is that we each and everyone must rely on the unenhampered human mind that creation has given us............and we must not let it be hampered by false prophets and their preachings. At the end of the day we must learn to live as one with all the other human beings on this planet through a naturalistic view of this creation. At our first years we are taught falsehoods that create so much pain and mayhem. We have to learn to grow past those, to free our minds to enable us to understand the differences in cultures, religions, and ideas and philosophies that separate us, and then to try to find common ground to enable all of us to grow away from the horrific, terrifying, mind controlling beliefs of past centuries.

Me? I don't know how to define "god" because it lies outside humankind's circle of knowledge, but maybe that is to be our ultimate goal, with each generation expaning our circle of knowledge. We'll see as time goes on, if we have the patience.

For me, heaven, hell, prophets, revalations are simply not within the realm of real human experience, and all the supernatiural writings belong on the fiction shelf.

For me, morality and ethics are derived from within the mind/body that creation has bestowed upon me if I am any kind of rational thinking human being with self interests, and I sometimes mistakenly assume that others have the same priorities.

We simply have to change the way we think, the way we raise our children. The Jesus Camp is all about mind control and in that regard is no different than the horrifying scenes we see about the Islamic madrassas. Simply put, it is tantamount to what Hitler did with the german youth. We have to change this to a teaching of questions about the nature of things, the origings of creation, why are we the way we are, what are our fears and questions, and how they can only be answered through the evolution of time (as in growing up). The last thing we need to be doing is putting fear, doubt, anxiety, false promises, and irrational answers into the minds of America's future leaders.

Taliban??????? Seems to come in different flavors, and we sure don't need a christian taliban in Americal.

Well, I've waxed overly long, but this is such an important issue, mayhaps in these days determining our success our failure, or survival, somethings have to be said to help us survive the challenge of the coming decade.

Again, let me congratulate you for airing this most important documentary on the "jesus camp."

You may print, publish, air, or otherwise use anything I have said here on this most important issue.

Thank you.

Terry T. Pierce
1300 Harkness Lane
Redondo Beach Ca 90278

EMAIL: TERRYP7624@AOL.COM
PHONE: 310-379-4707
jbbwis
jbbwis
Posts: 2
From: Wisconsin
Registered: 12/30/07
(6 of 11)

Re: Jesus camp is as evil as al-Qadia

Dec 31, 2007 12:25 AM
Although the church leaders portrayed said they felt the movie was fair and honest in its portrayal, the film clearly focuses on elements of camp and the evangelical movement that are ethically borderline at best. This is what makes the entire subject so chilling. The whole film (which incidentally did get an Oscar nod in Jan07) clearly shows that these children are being indoctrinated "be warriors" in "God's army" -- sounds very much like other religions, because indoctrination techniques are similar regardless of cause. Think back to similar indoctrination during the Crusades and Inquisition. They may not be putting bombs in these kids' hands, but their teaching is ideologically not far from it.

Pastor Fischer says she thinks America's so great, but also thinks the world's going to hell, and the sooner the rapture comes, the better. She teaches kids to avoid sin, but spends a bunch of time fussing over her hair. She complains about the amt of work that goes into it, but then shows it off to the kids and practically begs for attention. Apparently she's forgotten that vanity is one of the seven deadly sins.

The evangelicals shown here are hypocrites leading their children into a false innocence where they are told what to do and think. So much for learning about the other religions and beliefs they oppose -- made all the more easier by home-schooling to make sure your kids don't get exposure to other ideas. The kids pledging allegiance to the church was just freaky. Why have a democracy when it's so much easier to just hand the whole thing over to a theocracy. It makes you feel sorry for non-evangelical Christians who get a bad name by association.
snappa1961
snappa1961
Posts: 3
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: 12/30/07
(5 of 11)

Re: Jesus camp is as evil as al-Qadia

Dec 30, 2007 11:52 PM
These people should be taken up on child abuse charges. Its sad that in the U.S. we allow this kind of brainwashing to take place. Watching this show its easy to see why so many of Jim Jones people were led to commit suicide. Who ever this woman running the camp is should be subject to some heavy phsyciatric help immediatley.

The euphoria she creates in these camps is nothing short of using drugs to creat the endorphins that give rise to the feelings these kids are having. America is not now or has it ever been a "christian" nation these people are trying to rewrite our history to fit their agenda.
OSTEO1
OSTEO1
Posts: 1
From: OHIO
Registered: 12/30/07
(4 of 11)

Re: Jesus camp is as evil as al-Qadia

Dec 30, 2007 11:28 PM
This show is absolutely wrong. I know this is what the producers of this show wants people to say but its true. There is no difference between what the radical Muslims teach their children about western values and how to destroy them and what these nutbags at this camp are doing to those children. Did they use sleep deprivation to get those innocent children to respond that way. Certainly screams of brainwashing techniques. Its really sad that certain people in the US have to resort to these techniques to advance their ideology on to others. It's even worse that their are even bigger idiots that want to film it and call it art. It will be even sadder if the academy validates this crap and gives it an Oscar. They did it for Gore, need I say more.
missdustyrose
missdustyrose
Posts: 1
From: Victoria
Registered: 12/30/07
(3 of 11)

Re: Jesus camp is as evil as al-Qadia

Dec 30, 2007 11:04 PM
It's absolutely horrible to see this going on. Any extremist view of religion harms more than it helps. Making kids feel guilty about enjoying Harry Potter? Telliing them that the Devil tells lies and yet you say god spoke to you about those kids, whose telling the lies I wonder??
IrishPrincess
IrishPrincess
Posts: 1,108
From: OK
Registered: 10/12/03
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Re: Jesus camp is as evil as al-Qadia

Feb 16, 2007 3:05 PM
Does Jesus Camp teach people to blow up things?
crockpot
crockpot
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Registered: 7/26/06
(1 of 11)

Jesus camp is as evil as al-Qadia

Sep 28, 2006 12:13 PM
This is from the lastest al-qaida

"On the 20-minute tape, he called for experts in the fields of "chemistry, physics, electronics, media and all other sciences — especially nuclear scientists and explosives experts" to join his group's holy war against the West"

How is that different from what they are teaching kids in Jesus camp?
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