Wrongs

Heavengoing, why do you keep saying that you will not be posting here anymore and then you do? Don't make us all happy by saying you will not post and then come back and post your nonsense.

> I think this is getting a little out of hand although
> in my previouse comments i wasnt any better but I
> will say this To Heavengoing, You did say that you
> wouldnt welcome your family into your home and being
> first hand it would make it uncomfortable to be
> around at all because being there would be a lie. It
> would also cause depression, I know first hand. I
> would ask you this would you rather only get part of
> your family or all of them. And i mean that in two
> different ways, 1 being they will never be able to be
> close to you as long as you supress them. Dont
> beleive me fine but it is very true they may act
> loving but they can never be close to you completely.
> My dad ownes a gunshop and is one of 3 certified
> gunsmiths in Indiana and I have depression issues
> over acceptance. My sister is getting married in July
> and I had originally refused to be in her wedding but
> realized it wasnt her fault that my father is the way
> he is.. He constantly tells me im going to hell and
> it causes me further anguish and my mother just
> ignores it all and takes her effexor, although we can
> talk about it alone but never as a family.. It has
> litterally made me want to be away from everyone and
> as soon as i finish school im moving far away not
> just because of that but it is a major reason. Maybe
> everyone should just stop the judgments and make
> everything factual then the arguments would hold some
> higher understanding but the bible pushers refuse to
> respect the facts and also the facts that the bible
> gives itself read the bible and For you that dont
> know Christian religion came from the Jewish religion
> ask a Rabi.. Mwah Justin



read Post#34 again

I think this is getting a little out of hand although in my previouse comments i wasnt any better but I will say this To Heavengoing, You did say that you wouldnt welcome your family into your home and being first hand it would make it uncomfortable to be around at all because being there would be a lie. It would also cause depression, I know first hand. I would ask you this would you rather only get part of your family or all of them. And i mean that in two different ways, 1 being they will never be able to be close to you as long as you supress them. Dont beleive me fine but it is very true they may act loving but they can never be close to you completely. My dad ownes a gunshop and is one of 3 certified gunsmiths in Indiana and I have depression issues over acceptance. My sister is getting married in July and I had originally refused to be in her wedding but realized it wasnt her fault that my father is the way he is.. He constantly tells me im going to hell and it causes me further anguish and my mother just ignores it all and takes her effexor, although we can talk about it alone but never as a family.. It has litterally made me want to be away from everyone and as soon as i finish school im moving far away not just because of that but it is a major reason. Maybe everyone should just stop the judgments and make everything factual then the arguments would hold some higher understanding but the bible pushers refuse to respect the facts and also the facts that the bible gives itself read the bible and For you that dont know Christian religion came from the Jewish religion ask a Rabi.. Mwah Justin

What makes you believe there is a Jesus?

whodoyouhate?

I hate no one and you truly do not understand anything I have being saying.

I have peace and I can lay my head on my pillow at night and sleep.

Why do you hate Christian people so much? Do they make you feel a guilt inside of you that you cannot repress.

Lying, cheating, stealing, adultery, murder, sex before marriage, envy, hateing, man laying with man as with a woman, woman laying with woman as with a man, are all sins. I didn't say it. God did! Just because you don't believe or like something someone else does, does not mean you hate them. Everyone of you have judged me because I have an opinion. You say I hate gays and so forth, and so on. You tell me that I should throw all my beliefs out the window and believe like you guys do. Is this not the same as what I have said? I am only concerned with a person's soul. I am not respondible for your soul. You are!

> read this heavengoing.
>
> Mary Lou and Bob Wallner
>
>
> Mary Lou and Bob Wallner
>
> Mary Lou Wallner
> Elgin, Illinois
>
> I used to think that the only way to relate to gays
> was to confront them. I had no use for them. I didn't
> understand them, and I was judgmental and arrogant.
> And then that lifestyle touched our home.
>
> Eleven years ago at about 5:15 p.m. on Dec. 8, 1988.
> I had just walked into the house from work with the
> mail in my hand. There was a letter from my daughter,
> Anna. I opened it with the pleasure of anticipation
> that a mom feels when she hears from her daughter who
> is away at college. Her letter was dated Dec. 4,
> 1988. She told me that lots had happened in her life
> with regard to her sexuality. She said men had taken
> advantage of her and she always thought it was wrong
> to have sexual feelings at all. She said she'd fought
> long and hard to be comfortable and now she was. She
> said she was comfortable with women. She loved women.
> She wanted to be gay.
>
> She went on to say she loved me and hoped I wouldn't
> try to change her or anything. She said she loved God
> and knew He loved her.
>
> About two weeks later, I answered Anna's letter. It
> was December 20, 1988. I told her I was devastated by
> her letter. Please allow me to quote this one
> paragraph from my letter to Anna:
>
> "Undoubtedly the most difficult part of your letter
> was gay thing. I will NEVER accept that in you. feel
> its a terrible wastebesides being spiritually and
> morally wrong. For reason dont quite fathom have
> harder time dealing with issue than almost anything
> world. do continue to love YOUbut always hate pray
> every day change mind attitude."
>
> Almost two years later, August 13, 1989, and I was
> taking Anna back to the airport to go back to college
> after playing the piano at her cousin's wedding. I
> told her that IF she ever decided she wanted to get
> her act together, she was welcome to come home.
>
> What followed was more than 7 stormy years, at best.
> We had a few good times, but not many.
>
> In July of 1996, I wrote Anna another letter, because
> I'd not received a birthday card or a Mother's Day
> card and had had very little contact with her during
> that year. I told her I wanted to make things right
> with her, if she was willing, even though I wasn't
> sure exactly what I'd done to cause her to pull away
> from me.
>
> About two weeks letter, mid-August 1996, I received a
> letter back from Anna. She basically said she wanted
> nothing more to do with me, that I was her mother
> biologically only, that I had stolen her childhood
> from her, and that I had done colossal damage to her
> soul with my shaming words. She was done with me, and
> didn't want me in her life, not then, maybe not ever.
> She told me she could not, did not want to and did
> not have to forgive me.
>
> She told me she'd return letters unopened, she
> refused to give me her home phone number, and I could
> have her pager number for emergency use only. And, if
> I paged her and she discovered it was NOT an
> emergency, she would hang up on me. She said she
> needed space to heal and asked me to leave her alone.
> I was crushed. I cried for hours.
>
> I sought advice from a counselor Anna had seen when
> she was living at home, several friends and many
> family members. To a person, all said the same thing:
> You must respect Anna's wishes and give her the space
> she needs. That's what I wanted to hear and that's
> what I did.
>
> I keep wondering what would have happened if, after
> receiving her letter, I had grabbed my toothbrush,
> credit card and car keys, driven the 550 miles to
> where she was living and told her that I loved her no
> matter what. I didn't do that. The worst part is that
> I'll never be able to do that. Because on February
> 28, 1997 at 10:00 p.m., I received a phone call from
> my ex-husband and Anna's Dad. At about 4:00 p.m. that
> afternoon, Anna had been found hanging from the bar
> in her closet. She had been dead for 15 hours. It was
> ruled a suicide by the coroner--no autopsy, no note,
> no nothing---but days, weeks, months and years of
> pain and anguish.
>
> I have heard it said that when a loved one dies of
> suicide, there is a sense of utter failure. And the
> worst part of it was that I was a failure as a Mom to
> Anna. I did not love her adequately OR
> unconditionally.
>
> And that's why I'm here today/tonight. If I can steer
> one of you away from the pain and anguish I've been
> living, then maybe Anna's death will have meaning.
>
> In I Corinthians 13 Jesus said, among other things,
> "Love is patient...and kind. Love is not easily
> angered, it keeps no record of wrongs...It always
> protects, always hopes, always perseveres."
>
> I displayed none of that.
>
> Throughout these past 2 1/2 years, I've had to do a
> lot of soul searching to figure out just what part I
> played in Anna's death. I've had to wrestle with who
> I am and how I treated my own flesh and blood. I've
> had to repeatedly ask myself 2 questions and I'm
> going to ask them again today/tonight:
>
> The first one is: Have I EVER been changed by
> someone's criticism? Pause
>
> And #2, who are the people who have influenced me by
> unconditional love?
> Mary Lou and Bob Wallner
>
> Bob Wallner
> Elgin, Illinois
>
> I am the stepfather of Anna Wakefield who took her
> own life while living in the gay lifestyle. Her death
> totally devastated me. Earlier, when I found out that
> she was gay, I became angry and didn't know how to
> respond to her. She decided to separate herself from
> our family and we were estranged at the time of her
> death.
>
> Over the next two years, I learned a great deal about
> the gay lifestyle, and wished that I had known then
> what I know now. I would have treated Anna much more
> lovingly and accepted her for who she was.
>
> I'm going to Lynchburg to try to find ways that I can
> promote a loving atmosphere and abolish the rejection
> and hate shown to all those in the gay lifestyle.
> These wonderful people have been so poorly treated
> and deserve love, not rejection.


I am sorry for your lost. I have lost a lot of family over the years. No one, however, can truely know how another feels. God Bless You. Try not to blame yourself. Turn your feelings over to the Lord and let Him comfort you.I have things in my life concerning my daughthers that I would like to change. I have suffered for years from depression because I blamed myself for not being aware of some problems. However, with the Lord's help, I finally let it go. Now I am happy and free. It is a very long story and not very nice. I was sick for a long time when my children were little and felt that if I had been will, I would have seen more. Enough. God bless you and your family.

OH MY GOD!!! I JUST FIGURED IT OUT FOOTDOC! I am not gay because I was born that way... I am gay because I smoke! I have seen the light! - LOL -

I am not sure why everyone is yelling at each other and saying how stupid each other is.

we can yell at each other all we want but it isnt going to change anything. If any of you think insulting each other is even remotely helpful to either cause, your dead wrong. sure it may make you feel better but it sure as heck doesnt make the other respect you.

respect in these forums is all the credit that we can carry. writing messages completely in caps, saying people are stupid and are going to hell is doing nothing for your credibility.

as for my oppinion and the first reason i started writing this was in reply to Heavengoing's comment on what she would do if her grand/son/daughter told her they were homosexual. she said that she would not allow that person into her house.
i just want to let you know if you did that, your grand/child would have a hard time coming to see you because when they are in your house they have to revert back to a lie that every homosexual starts out living in.
i'm not sure what the smoking refrence is exactly for, i'm guessing its comparing the discusting natures of the two. what i want to point out here is simple, smoking harms the body, where homosexuality does not.